Reader James McMurchie asked from which club Dundee United signed Duncan Young in the 1950s.
He said he saw Young featured in a Dundee United team group which contained Johnny Coyle, and reckoned he recognised him from boys football in the 1950s.
Duncan Young was a towering centre-half with Butterburn Youth Club when he joined up at Tannadice in October 1955.
A press cutting from the time suggested that English clubs Wolves and Manchester City had offered him terms but the defender preferred to stay locally.
On a personal note, Duncan — a real gentleman — was one of my journeymen when I first started with DC Thomson away back in the heady days of May 1967.
* The venues of the 1966 World Cup in England continue to provoke debate.
John Shaw mentioned in the September 22 issue that he was of the view that some of England’s early group games were originally scheduled for venues other than Wembley.
Several readers came on with their take on the matter.
Kenny McIntyre phoned to say he thought England were due to play games at the White City Dog Track.
Billy Mortimer, though, refuted that.
“Let there be no doubt that ALL England’s games from the time the draw was made were scheduled to be played at Wembley Stadium
“My late father William attended every match including the final. He told me many tales of the 1966 competition but none mentioned England being down to play away from Wembley at any stage and I can’t find anything to say otherwise on the internet.
“White City Stadium hosted just one game at the 1966 World Cup, which was a group match between Uruguay and France, which Uruguay won 2-1.
“That particular match was originally planned to be played at Wembley. However, when the owners of Wembley refused to reschedule a previously-planned dog race, the match was moved to White City.”
‘Tommy The Arab’ remembers Dundee United winning 7-0 against a team in the 1960s, with the Tannadice side’s Scandinavian players scoring all the goals.
“I’m sure Finn Dossing, Orjan Persson and the other Scandinavians shared the goals between them,” said Tommy, who also said he was from Downfield.
“The reason I remember this so well was that another Scottish team also won 7-0 that day.
“I’m sure it was Hibs but can’t remember the opposition.
“However, I also think Colin Stein scored at least three in that game prior to being sold to Rangers.”
First to United, and they beat Ayr United 7-0 at home on September 24, 1966.
Dossing and Persson each scored doubles, but Lennart Wing, the only other Scandinavian in the team that day, did not score.
Ian Mitchell notched a brace with the final counter an own goal by Eddie Monan.
Colin Stein was, indeed, on the mark for Hibs in their 7-0 trouncing of Partick Thistle at Easter Road that afternoon.
Stein, too, only recorded a brace.
Hibs’ other goal against the Jags came from Scott (2), Cormack (2) and Stevenson.
In recent months, there has been quite a bit of publicity over the Strathmartine Hospital site on the outskirts of Dundee.
This institution, of course, was a marvellous facility for the local area.
Jim Anderson remembers it, too, because, in addition to being a nurse, he played in the hospital football team.
“I came back from Australia in 1970 when my mum died and started working in Strathmartine Hospital,” said Jim, of St Giles Terrace, St Mary’s, Dundee.
“I worked as a nurse and it was thoroughly enjoyable.
“There was a local hospital league which comprised Strathmartine, DRI, Medical Students, Liff, Sunnyside, Murray Royal and Stracathro.
“I have enclosed a photo which may bring back a few memories to some of your readers.”
Among those in the back row are — manager Larry Leonard (nursing officer), Drew (surname unknown, nurse), Ian Taylor (guest), Johnny Robertson (guest), Davie Scott (hospital electrician), Billy Scobie (hospital stores). Front row — Charlie Fitchett, Eddie Small, Rab Rooney (mechanic), Graham (surname unknown, chef), Jim Anderson, Frankie Robertson (electrician).
Jim concluded: “Rab was Jimmy Rooney’s brother, who has featured in your column many times. It was a really good league and very enjoyable to play in.”
There are many readers who have contributed to BwB more than a couple of times.
Local referee Frankie Campbell is one.
Frankie, a great friend of mine when we were growing up as youngsters in Balerno Street, Dundee, has shared many a tale.
I thought his storyline locker was now bare until he came up with an absolute gem.
“I thought I’d share another story from the past with you and the Tele readers,” opened Frankie, who retired from working in Michelin a few years ago.
“When Jimmy Kyles and I were signed for Celtic on S-forms (schoolboy forms), we had to go to Parkhead every summer holidays for short spells training with the senior team.
“This was the European Cup-winning team, so playing with guys like Jimmy Johnstone was a great thrill.
“One day, we were on our way back to our digs, accompanied by the late Ian Hall, a reserve player, along with a young third-team player who was causing a bit of a stir.
“This young player was a very friendly lad and he invited us into his house for a drink and to listen to his new LP.
“I remember his house as being similar to the ones in The Glens area of Dundee, with one family living above another.
“We were offered a choice of blackcurrant or raspberry cordial by his dad and dutifully listened to his album, ‘Tamla Motown Chartbusters Volume 2’.
“I was more of a Beatles fan but the young lad was very enthusiastic about his purchase.
“That young lad turned out to be Kenny Dalglish — who went on to be a true world great in the game — and I’ve been boasting about having been in his house ever since!
“Most of my mates are bored to death with this story, so I figured it was time to share it with you.”
After I chastised Frankie for keeping this brilliant tale from BwB, we quietly went through his former teams other than Celtic.
He laughed: “A full list of my ex-teams would fill the Tele but here goes.
“I played for St Pius primary, then Lawside Academy, who were Scottish Cup winners in 1968.
“I was also with St Francis Amateurs, playing alongside Derek Johnstone.
“I had a spell with Dundee United before being released by Jim McLean, then it was on to short stints in the juniors at Downfield, Harp and Violet.
“I have to confess I was never a great success at junior level.
“Then it was on to Albion Rangers, a juvenile team ran by the late Dave Pullar, whose son Steve gave me my referee training.
“I was also two years at Alyth United, in which we never got off the bottom of the Second Division before folding.
“Then followed a 12-year break until, at 42, I began playing amateur at Second X1 level for Midlands AFA clubs Monifieth Tayside, Kelso, Michelin, Morgan and Magdalen Green.
“I then gave up but took up refereeing.”
Frankie, who has lived in the same house in Strips of Craigie Road for 35 years, concluded: “I’m still refereeing Midlands, Saturday Morning, Sunday Amateurs and school games.”
Rob Boag has fallen in love with a new book… Brian McColl’s ‘Scottish Football Historical Results Volume 1 1873-1900’.
“This is a labour of love for Brian and is an encyclopaedic compilation of senior Scottish teams, geographic leagues and tables,” he said.
“It tracks the journey of teams through to the final of the Scottish Cup, regional cups and regional trophies, with match results from that period in football history.
“There are brilliant team pictures.
“For instance, I didn’t know the original Celtic strip was green-and-white vertical stripes. The hoop design was introduced in 1903.
“In an anecdote, it illustrates the SFA didn’t have the same power back then that it currently has — or teams then had no respect, or possibly contempt, for the governing body.
“The 1879 Scottish Cup Final saw Rangers meet Vale of Leven, the game finishing in a draw.
“Rangers had a goal disallowed.
“Incensed by the referee’s decision to disallow their goal, Rangers refused to turn up the following week for the replay.
“Vale of Leven were then awarded the Scottish Cup.
The entry on the trophy for that season reads ‘Vale of Leven’. Rangers’ name does not appear.”
Rob, a regular contributor to this page, continued: “My main interest, however, was in Dundee teams during that period of football activity, searching for the ancestors and DNA of Dundee senior football history.
“The name jumped off the page. I had not heard or seen it in a long time — Our Boys. A team name that provides no clue or connotation to a city, town, district or religion.
“I believe Our Boys came from the Baxter Park area, where they played on a ground called West Craigie.
“In 1893, a game between Dundee and Rangers took place on West Craigie. Where was that pitch?
“In the latter part of the 19th century, Dundee teams were formed and then, for unknown reasons, folded.
“The prominent Dundee teams at that time with great rivalry were Dundee Strathmore, Dundee Harp, East End, Johnstone Wanderers, Lochee United, Our Boys and
St Clement’s.
“Then there are the grounds where these teams turned out.
“I am familiar with Balgay Park, Magdalen Green and Lochee Park but where are the locations of these grounds from the past where Dundee teams played?
“Can any BwB readers provide a location for Boghead, Carolina Port, East Dock Street, Logie Park, Morgan Park, Pitkerro Road, Rollo’s Pier, St Margaret’s Park and Viewforth Park?
“Football had been played for decades before the SFA became the governing body but, in the latter quarter century of the 1800s, there were now workers from mills, foundries, shipyards, offices, trades apprentices and journeymen who participated in this game called football.”
Canadian resident Rob concluded: “A tip of the cap must go to behind-the-scenes pioneers who created, organised and established new clubs, learned the rules and found an area of green space that met the regulated dimensions of the sport. All this without phones and texting!
“Also, a nod of recognition to the unsung heroines, mothers, wives and sisters of players who hand washed heavy muddy strips and had them dry — even in wet dreich weather — for the next game.”
Next year will mark 40 years since one of Dundee’s Harris Academy football teams won the Scottish Cup (known as Scottish Shield in schoolboy football circles).
It was on May 18, 1976, the Harris U/18 team returned triumphant from Hampden Park, Glasgow, with the coveted trophy after beating Paisley school St Mirin’s Academy in the final.
They had to go to extra time to do so but eventually prevailed with goals from Grant Gardner, Malcolm McQuillan and Jake Shaw.
Two of the players in that successful team —Ian Boardley and Grant Gardner — want to host a reunion.
And they have turned to BwB to highlight this great feat.
“I was hoping you may be able to assist with an event myself and Grant Gardner are trying to arrange for next year around May time,” said Ian, who went on to play for Forfar Athletic among others.
“It will the be 40 years since Harris Academy won the Scottish Schools U/18 Shield at Hampden Park.
“We are arranging a reunion for the team, teachers and supporters.
“However, we only have contact details for a few of the guys.”
Anyone wanting to get in touch regarding this event should phone Grant on 07717 347946 or Ian on 07958 133329. Alternatively, Ian’s email address is ianboardley@hotmail.com.
Broughty Ferry’s Ian, who also played for Arbroath FC, along with junior stints at Stobswell, North End, Violet, Broughty Athletic, Arbroath SC and Downfield, in
addition to Broughty Utd Amateurs, sent in a couple of photos from the great day.
The picture at the top of the page was taken on the pitch at Hampden. Back row (from left) — J Gunn, A Livingstone, I Easton, I Michie, I Boardley, C Scott, B Soave, K Maxwell (capt), G Cunningham, L Nicol. Front row — M McMillan, A Clark, J Burns, G Gardner, J Shaw.
The image above was taken at the school as they displayed the trophy. Back row (from left) — G Cunningham, J Shaw, I Boardley, B Soave, K Maxwell, J Gunn, G Gardner, A Clarke. Front row — G Soutar (manager), L Nicoll, A Livingstone, I Easton, I Michie, C Scott, M McMillan. J Burns was absent when this photo was taken.
This team also won the Dundee Schools League that season and were runners-up in the McLelland Cup.
‘Snap, crackle and pop’ was a catchphrase usually associated with an advertising slogan for Rice Crispies in the 1950s/60s and beyond.
However, there certainly was an abundance of ‘snap, crackle and pop’ in the days, weeks and months following the date of June 19, 1974.
That was the date which gave birth to a memorable football moment.
The venue was Dortmund as West Germany hosted the 1974 World Cup.
Holland met Sweden on that date and star man Johan Cruyff received the ball on the left wing.
He was closely marked by Swedish defender Jan Olsson and initially made tracks back facing his own half.
As Olsson got nearer, the ‘Cruyff Turn’ was born as the Dutchman quickly, brilliantly, manoeuvred the ball through his own legs and turned at the same time, leaving his opponent bamboozled and bewildered.
My ‘snap, crackle and pop’ reference is to all the knee tendons, cartilages and ligaments bursting over the following weeks as everyone with a ball in playgrounds and local parks was having a go emulating the great feat.
I know this to be especially true as, around a month later, I was enjoying pre-season training with local junior side Broughty Athletic.
In our end-of-training kick-about, I tried to master the great trick against one of my team-mates but only succeeded in injuring myself as something definitely gave way in my knee.
As you did in those days, I just rubbed it a little and tried to run it off. Looking back, I’m convinced that was the moment my football career — at any decent level — died.
I was reminded about all this with the recent news that Cruyff is currently suffering from lung cancer.
Like everyone in football all over the world, I’m sure BwB readers will join me in wishing him total recovery from this illness.
Throughout the years in BwB, we have highlighted NCR AFC’s great achievement in winning the Scottish Amateur Cup.
Now a regular reader has come in with information regarding another Scottish Cup success for NCR —this time at water polo.
“I was not long working in the NCR in October 1956 and I was asked if I would like to form a swimming club,” said Frank Jordan, of Lochee, Dundee.
“At that time, I was a member of the Whitehall Swimming Club and I got in touch with two Whitehall committee members, who were employees at the NCR factory at Kingsway West, Dundee.
“Fred Wood and Bill Fowler were the employees and we arranged the NCR’s first club night at the Dundee Central Baths in the ladies pool.
“There was a big turnout of employees and their families. However, that was just a stop-gap night and we were looking for a regular weekly date.
“We managed to get a move to the Lochee Swimming Baths, where we formed the first NCR swimming and water polo teams and played our games at Lochee.
“The first swimming and polo teams were formed from past employees as a number of them had been members of various Dundee swimming clubs.
“Willie Inglis (Belmont), John Deans (Dundee Scouts), Dennis Smith, Forrie Madden and John McGeoghie (all Arnhall), Bob Low (Blairgowrie) and yours truly.
“Parents, youngsters and volunteers helped with the coaching and both disciplines within the club and the coaches turned out to be very good.
“Indeed, some ended up as the best in the country. They started out with no coaching experience but just progressed as the club moved on.
“Frank Osborne, Jim Fraser, Archie Manson, Eddie Foster, Forrie Madden and a number of swimmers and polo players went on to represent Midlands, Scotland and Great Britain.
“The swimming team took part in a British inter club competition at Southend and finished third.
“Polo teams were beginning to make their mark at the district and national level. The juniors won in the district and Scottish U/15, U/18 and U/21 Championships and in 1965 the senior men beat Whitehall 6-5 in the final of the Corporation Cup and this was Whitehall’s first defeat since World War II.
“In 1971, I was made redundant and I took the post as a physical training assistant at Menzieshill High and any pupil showing signs of talent for aquatics I hallmarked them to join the NCR.
“Ross Elder took over as polo coach and, in 1977, the team won the Scottish Senior Men’s trophy at Inverness defeating the much-fancied Portobello 3-2 after extra time to become the first Dundee and Midlands team to win the trophy, and that record still stands. Alan Elder was the first Midlands player to be chosen for Great Britain and every player in the photo has represented Scotland at senior or junior level.”
Broadcaster Bobby McMahon got in touch from the USA with a story about former Aberdeen goalkeeper Bobby Clark.
He opened: “I no longer do work for Fox Soccer in the US.
“When they lost the rights to the Premier League, a decision was made to close the station and replace it with two general sport networks — Fox Sports 1 and 2.
“I still write regular columns for Forbes.com and guest on radio shows and podcasts from time to time.
“My accent stands out for Gregg Lemkau and Chad Riley as a reminder their playing days under the guidance of current University of Notre Dame men’s soccer head coach Bobby Clark.
“Steady and firm, blanketed in a thickly-knit Scottish brogue, Clark’s is a voice rarely raised in anger, if ever.
“It’s a voice that can be stern, yet also be an arm around the shoulder.
“It’s a voice that inspires collegiate soccer players to embark on a journey of inquiry, a voice that helps arm them with skills to slice through the wilderness of the world long after the cheers of the soccer field have faded away.
“Lemkau played soccer for Clark at Dartmouth College when the Clark era there started.
“The Big Green hadn’t enjoyed a winning season in six years before Clark arrived. When Clark left after nine seasons, Dartmouth had three Ivy League titles and two appearances in the NCAA elite eight.
“Riley played soccer for Clark at Notre Dame, where the Irish were coming off a losing season when Clark arrived. Notre Dame went from an RPI of 111 in Riley’s freshman season to an RPI of five when Riley was a senior.
“In 2013, Clark and his Fighting Irish raised a national championship banner.”
A new coaching school under Clark’s name has now emerged, as Bob continued: “Clark, Lemkau and Riley are now united in a remarkable gesture of generosity. Lemkau, who graduated from Dartmouth in 1991, and his wife Kate created the Bobby Clark Head Coach of Men’s Soccer position at Dartmouth through an endowment of $2 million.
Bobby Clark is in this Scotland squad photo from 1971-72, taken during a training session. Back row, from left — Unknown, Davie Hay, Unknown, Archie Gemmill, John O’Hare, Sandy Jardine, Alex Cropley, Pat Stanton, Jimmy Johnstone, team manager Tommy Docherty. Front row — Unknown, Bobby Clark, Eddie Colquhoun, Bob Wilson, George Graham, Martin Buchan, Billy Bremner.
“Riley is the head coach of the Dartmouth men’s soccer programme.”
Clark said of the endowment that is in his name: “It says a lot about Gregg as a person.
“Most people would have grabbed that opportunity to put their name on it — and rightly so. That’s what I would have expected.
“For Gregg to do this, I’m very indebted to him to be remembered from that group of guys.
The former Don continued: “It’s very big of him, very generous of him. I’m glad I made an impression on that group. They’ve all gone on and done extremely well.
“That’s the most rewarding thing for a teacher, to look back and see that all of them have gone on and done so well, in all kind of different fields, doctors, engineers, in teaching, and as coaches.”
Lemkau, the co-head of Global Mergers and Acquisitions for Goldman Sachs, offered: “Bobby Clark was, first and foremost, a teacher, a teacher of the game and a teacher of life.
“He was never a yeller or a screamer. He clearly had the credibility, having played at such a high level.
“He was extraordinarily technical in his coaching, both from the little things, how to play the position, as well as a tactician around the game.
“He had a great feel for the game, even from a goalkeeper’s perspective.
“He was inspiring without yelling. You just wanted to do well for him.
“He always had the right little bit of wisdom, or Scottish saying, or right motivation at the right point in time for each player, and was very focused on not just the starting 11 players but the full 18-man squad.”
Riley, who also served as an assistant coach for Clark, said the ex-Aberdeen man’s demeanour has him standing a cut above the rest.
“One of the biggest differences with him was he didn’t yell at you,” Riley said of Clark.
“Most athletes are used to growing up with coaches who, for better or worse, are yelling at you. He never really had to do that.
“He had very high standards and was very demanding but there was never yelling.
“He wanted you to be internally motivated. He was very good about that. That’s very hard to do as a coach.
“For me, he’s really the model of what a modern-day high-level competitive collegiate coach can do.”
Brian Sharp revealed that his father Alex received a junior international cap for Scotland.
Brian, from Douglas, Dundee, was responding to several articles concerning Lil Lindsay and Dundee Violet.
Lil found several Scotland caps as she was sprucing up the inner sanctum of Glenesk Park and asked for help from BwB readers to trace their owners.
However, Brian knew where his father’s caps ended up.
“My father’s Scotland junior cap and jersey was always around the house as I was growing up,” said Brian (68).
“I remember the cap being given for Scotland v Wales at Dens Park around 1929/30/31.
“It’s made of velvet with a gold tassle and was very small — one you certainly couldn’t wear. It would only sit on top of the head.
“The international strip was one of those old heavy types with a Lion Rampant badge. I’m sure he was with Violet at the time he was capped. He also played for North End, so it could have been when he was with them but I think it was Violet.”
Brian, a plumber during his working years, continued: “The twist in the tale here is that dad didn’t actually play in the game.
“He was named as 12th man. As there were no substitutes in those, he was the player on stand-by if anyone pulled out.
“Obviously, you were awarded a cap and strip all the same.”
And what has become of the cap and strip?
“I’m afraid they have just been mislaid over the passage of time.
“I’m a bit embarrassed to say but I know a bit more about the strip.
“One day, my granny cut six inches off it so I could go out to play in it!”
Wow . . . could you just imagine that happening nowadays?
Well, it wouldn’t, would it? These strips are now usually framed and treasured, or given away to needy causes to raise funds.
Brian has contributed before to BwB as he told of his father’s football career.
After Violet, he signed for East Fife and was at Bayview at the same time as Scot Symon, who would go on to become the legendary manager of Rangers.
After Methil, it was on to Blackburn Rovers and Hull City before returning to Scotland to play for Falkirk and Raith Rovers.
Donald Gellatly said he enjoyed the BwB piece on the brothers who have played for Dundee.
“I feel compelled to expand the list further,” he said.
“As far as I’m aware, the only brothers to have played in the same Dundee FC XI in a competitive match prior to the McGinns were the Halketts and the McDonalds.
“Alex Halkett was a small right-half who made his debut for the Dee in a 1-0 win over Hibs in September 1901.
His older brother Johnnie played in the same match as the outside-left.
“Despite beating the men from Leith, both Halketts were dropped for the following fixture and never again appeared in the same Dundee first team together.
“Johnnie later moved to India to work in the jute industry and Alex went on to captain Aberdeen before losing his life in the Great War.
“Daniel ‘Roy’ McDonald was a sturdy half-back who joined Dundee in 1913 and he appeared in the same Dundee team as his eldest brother Jock the following year.
“Both players subsequently had their careers interrupted by the First World War but Roy returned to Dens Park after the conflict to play in the same XI as his other sibling Davie.
“Roy also played for Tottenham, Jock was a popular winger at Liverpool and Davie was on the books of East Fife.
“The list of brothers at Dundee continues with George and David Steven pulling on the famous Dark Blue shirt, albeit at different times, before the First World War, as well as Andy and Jimmy Morgan, who featured in the same Dee team in the Eastern League in April 1940.
“The only other brothers to play in competitive games for Dundee, again at different times, were the Chaplins.
“Indeed, John Chaplin took over the left-back position from his younger sibling George in September 1908 and he consequently played in the Dark Blues’ 1910 Scottish Cup-winning side.”
Donald continued: “Further, Charles and Alex Craig — plus Frank and Bill Ferrier — were bothers who played for Dundee Football and Athletic Club in Division One at different times in the late 19th century.
“The three Gilligan siblings should also get a mention and I believe they’ve still got relatives in the Tayside area.
“Sandy Gilligan scored the first-ever goal for a Dundee club in the Scottish Football League in 1893, William played half a dozen times in 1898 and Sam scored three goals in nine appearances for Dundee FC in 1903, which earned the dashing centre-forward future moves to Celtic and Liverpool.
“I’d love to unearth information on another Dundee player from the Great War period called Tommy Taylor, although your readers may tend not to take an interest in events they don’t remember, so it’s maybe too much of a long shot!
“However, Taylor was Dundee’s top scorer in the 1917-18 Eastern League, having come from junior football in Broughty Ferry.
“However, he promptly disappears from all records at the end of the term, despite having scored 28 times in 31 appearances.
“If there are any Taylors in the Ferry who may be descended from Tommy, I’d be very interested to hear what became of him.”
Also in reply to my plea for any players called Felix, Donald concluded: “There was a Felix McGrogan at Raith Rovers, then St Johnstone between 1961 and 1966 and a Felix Staroscik at Third Lanark in the late 1940s.”
Sandy Gilligan is featured in the Dundee v Rangers pre-match photo (above) from 1893 as Dundee took on the Glasgow side at West Craigie Park.
We’ve featured this photo before in BwB but it is worth listing again.
The Dundee players (in stripes) and officials are (back row, from left) — Adam Marshall (trainer), Mr Sandy Spalding, Willie Thomson, Mr David McEwan, Mr Tom Shaw,
James Brown, Bill Ferrier, Mr James McIntosh, Bill McKie, Mr J Black (referee), Dave Craig, Sandy Keillor, Mr James Petrie (president).
Middle row — Bill Longair, Bob Petrie.
Front row — John Clark, Jimmy Dundas, Sandy Gilligan.
A very unusual way of signing a player took place in Stirling in February 1952.
Raith Rovers were interested in a young Fife junior goalkeeper.
They had him watched in his games for Lochore Welfare and decided to approach him one evening with a view to signing.
On calling at Charlie Drummond’s home, Stark’s Park manager Bert Herdman was informed he was at a cinema in Stirling.
The boss, knowing that a host of English clubs had been eyeing him up, wasted no time and journeyed through to Stirling and managed to persuade the cinema staff to flash a message on screen asking Charlie to meet him in the foyer.
Just imagine the legendary scene… “I’m Spartacus”, “I’m Spartacus”, “I’m Spartacus” … “Could Charlie Drummond please go to the foyer”.
Charlie duly did and immediately put pen to paper.
Charlie is in this Raith Rovers line-up (above) from August 1956. Back row (from left) — Malcolm McLure, Willie Polland, Charlie Drummond, Andy Young, Willie McNaught, Andy Leigh.
Front row — Jimmy McEwan, Benny Kelly, Ernie Copland, Jackie Williamson, John Urquhart.
Dundonian Davie Watson found a picture of a football team on an old computer.
“It’s a picture of the Butterburn Primary School team of 1957-58, which has been a topic over the last few months regarding a cup final against Rockwell,” said Davie, now resident in Toronto, Canada.
“Since that debate started, I have been in touch with Dave Mahady, who was the Rockie goalie and a team-mate with Butterburn Youth Club.
“Looking at that Rockwell picture — they have a nice strip.
“Then I see our strip!
“Och well, it’s who’s wearing it that counts, eh?”
Unfortunately, the photo was of such low resolution that it couldn’t print.
However, it is worth continuing with Davie’s tale as he mentions several names of his team-mates.
Davie said he couldn’t recall all the names in the photo but he is the player holding the trophy.
He continued: “Other ones I remember are the goalie Benny Broon, Brian Don (right-wing) and Tucker Thom (inside-right).
“There is also left-winger George McKinnon and Albert Hood.”
* Barry Gordon, from Longforgan, wants to know which English football team has won the FA Cup with most Scots in their side.
I don’t think there will be any more than eight — and that’s the amount of Scots who were in Bradford’s side when they won the FA Cup.
It was 1911 and, after a 0-0 draw against Newcastle at Crystal Palace, Bradford beat the Geordies 1-0 at Old Trafford.
Of their team — Mellors; Campbell Taylor; Robinson, Torrance, McDonald; Logan, Spiers, O’Rourke, Devine, Thompson — only Mellors and Robinson were English.
Thompson was an Irish international.
Not surprisingly, Bradford’s manager Peter O’Rourke (no relation to the centre) was also a Scot.
Graham Rennie featured in the photo of Blackness Primary School football team which Bobby Walker sent in (BwB, September 8).
Graham reckons Bobby’s dates are possibly a wee bit out.
“Bobby, who was a good friend of mine, says the photo is from 1951-52,” said Graham, of Broughty Ferry.
“That would make me seven years old at that time and I certainly didn’t make the school team at that age.
“I can name some players who Bobby couldn’t (new names are in capitals).
“That would make the line-up (see below)… (back row, from left) — Bobby Walker, Ewan Cameron, Billy Walker, SANDY KNOX, Graham Rennie, ALAN LOWSON. Front row — Still unknown, Bill Dalziel, Roger ‘Pogie’ Smith, TOMMY RAE, Sidney Blair.
The original Blackness PS pic
“Unfortunately, Roger and Sidney have now passed away.”
Graham’s football career continued after primary school and, after several years with Butterburn Youth Club, he signed for St Johnstone. He later came back to play for Lochee United.
He continued: “One of my team-mates at St Johnstone was Bobby Connolly.
“Bobby was a Glaswegian who had a spell with Liverpool.
“Let’s just say he was more street-wise than me.
“We were both part-time as we had day jobs (I was an apprentice printer with Pellow’s in Lintrathen Street, Dundee).
“We found out that some of the other part-timers were on £8 a week when we were being paid £7.
“Bobby was having none of it and marched into the manager’s office and got it all sorted out in our favour.
“Believe me, £1 went a long way in those days.”
Graham, who was also a foreman in Low and Bonar in Morgan Street, in addition to spending nine years in Dumfries, was tickled at Bobby Walker’s description of
his early years in the Blackness area of the city.
“My daughter is absolutely flabbergasted that we didn’t have a bath in the house in those days,” revealed Graham.
“She just can’t fathom us having to go down to the washie to clean ourselves up.”
The Blackness PS photo also allowed Graham some claim to fame.
He concluded: “I’m a member of Barnhill Bowling Club and two different members came up to me with a copy of the Tele, saying ‘You are in the Tully tonight!’
“When I went home the same evening, another friend had stuck a copy through my letterbox.
“So I ended up with quite a few photos.”
Graham and Bob Connolly are featured in the St Johnstone team photo (top of page) from August 1963.
Again, this has been used before in BwB in a totally different story and theme but, again, it is worth another look.
Modestly, Graham omitted to mention he was once a team-mate of Alex Ferguson.
Overhearing a conversation in a Broughty Ferry public-house, I decided to check out what I was hearing.
I didn’t intrude on the pair of jovial revellers but the gist of the tale is that one claimed Dundee junior club East Craigie were the oldest junior football team in Scotland.
The other said it was held by a Glasgow side but he couldn’t remember who.
And, coincidentally, a few days later, Graeme Curr handed me several photos of East Craigie, many of which were taken at their centenary dinner in 1980.
So that last line should tell you that East Craigie — nicknamed The Shipbuilders — were founded in 1880 and have had an unbroken tenure for the last 135 years.
I also know that is a long-held view of the local junior fraternity but I have to agree with the second ‘pub-goer’ that there are claims which provoke doubt by some in the west of Scotland.
Among the photos Graeme, from Newtyle, handed in was a booklet from their 1980 event.
The booklet — ‘East Craigie Through The Years’ — is William Elder’s account of the rise of the club.
In it is stated that Glasgow Parkhead were also founded in 1880 but several months before East Craigie and, after going into abeyance for a season after a dispute with the Scottish Junior FA, they took up their membership again.
A quick look in files reveals they packed up in 1963, so they are now ruled out.
There is also a school of thought that Kirkintilloch Rob Roy are currently the oldest, as their year of formation is given as 1878.
Any further input on this would be welcomed.
Willie Hennessey is mentioned in the story below and this is the original Corinthians side in their year of origin — 1952 Coronation Year — which also features Willie. Manager Don Blyth is pictured with the players. The caption on the photo gave the team names in 2-3-5 formation . . . J Madden; L Blyth, C Robertson; R McNaughton, C Blyth, R Cox; J McEwan, WL Hennessey, J Anderson, B McPhee, T Sturrock.
I asked Graeme what his connection with the Shipbuilders was, and he replied: “Willie Hennessey was by father-in-law.
“He was tasked with putting together the 1980 centenary dinner, which was held in the Marryat Hall in Dundee.
“Sadly, Willie is no longer with us as he died eight years ago.”
It would take at least 10 weeks of BwB to fully give the detail in the booklet but below are some extracts.
The year 1880 saw several young men employed at Wallace Craigie Works form a cricket team.
The approached their works manager Mr Robertson for a donation and he eventually supplied gear.
He also suggested to them that, instead of packing up at the end of the cricket season that they should stay together to form a football team.
They took the name Craigie and started playing against scratch XIs in Dundee and the surrounding district.
One of their early games was against West Craigie on ground at Stobsmuir.
The game had hardly started when a policeman chased them from the park.
Undaunted, they lifted the goalposts and headed down to a vacant piece of ground where the Caledon Shipyard was later built.
They completed the 90 minutes.
As they were no leagues or cups in those early days, friendlies continued to be the norm, playing against makeshift sides such as Rockfield, who were a team of lads from the Albert Street area.
Football boots were unheard of and players just wore their everyday boots, and shinguards were always worn outside the stocking similar to a batsman’s pad!
There were no crossbars or nets, with a tape being erected from post to post.
At times, the tape sagged and there were many arguments and discussions over whether the ball had went under or over the tape.
The name East Craigie came about when they approached the owner of East Craigie Farm for a donation and, after receiving a favourable response, decided to include East in their name.
The farmer also gave them a piece of ground, which is now known as Craigie Park.
Until the new ground was ready, they played games at Mayfield and Caird Park.
Junior leagues and cup competitions were starting to sprout up and EC were to come up against Violet, Harp, Forfar Perseverance, North End, Stobswell and Fairfield among others.
After some poor years, the signing of centre-half James Gilligan sparked an upsurge in fortunes for the club.
He was a great centre-half and a team of youngsters was successfully built around him.
He was also involved in other aspects of the club and was an expert in fund-raising.
Other great players to have worn the blue and white jersey of EC around that time included Jimmy Sharp (Dundee, Rangers, Fulham), Archie Taylor (Dundee, West Ham, Barnsley) and Frank Murray (Dundee, West Ham).
There was also Alex Gilligan (Dundee, Bolton Wanderers), Will Gilligan (Dundee, Derby County), John Gilligan (Dundee Wanderers, Clyde) and John Malloch (Dundee, Sheffield Wednesday).
Others were G ‘Poodle’ Forbes (Dundee Hibs, St Johnstone), Jimmy Easson (Portsmouth) and Tommy McAnearney (Dundee).
Among the photos of the centenary, I spotted my friend Peter Schiavetta among the guests.
Those familiar with Peter will know he is still a dapper dresser — and that was also the case 35 years ago.
Graeme Curr also sent in several other old photos of Dundee junior sides and I’ll use them in the coming weeks.
In our October 20 issue, we gave details of testimonial games for Dundee United legends Doug Smith and Dennis Gillespie.
Also mentioned was scant details of another testimonial for Doug Wilkie.
A reader has sent in a programme from Wilkie’s testimonial, which gives a bit more insight to the occasion.
He was badly injured in the Invergowrie train crash and had to give up football.
In his programme notes, he said: “Football has always been part of my life since my school days right to the time I turned professional with Dundee United.
“One of my first teams was Eastercraigs, and team-mates in those early days included Tommy Burns, Alex O’Hara and Joe Sweeney, who also eventually became professional footballers.
“When with Eastercraigs, I had several senior trials with Wolves, Manchester City and Bristol City — and this made me even more determined to make football my career.
“My next team was Fernhill and I played in the same side as Steve Archibald before I moved on to Queen’s Park.
“I had five happy seasons at Hampden.
“During my period with Queen’s, I was voted Player of the Year — an award which meant much and one I was proud to hold.
“I was also chosen to play in a Scotland Select side. There is no greater honour than to be chosen for your country — at any level!
“I then fulfilled my lifelong ambition by signing professional forms and went to further my playing career with Dundee United.
“Then came the train crash which left me paralysed from the waist down and shattered my dreams of a football career.
“The day I was told I would never play football again I thought the world had come to an end. I was brokenhearted.”
Wilkie’s testimonial went ahead at Tannadice on Sunday, October 4, 1981, and featured an East Select v West Select, the latter winning 4-2.
I don’t have actual line-ups but the East Select was made up of players from Dundee United, Dundee, Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts.
All Dundee United players were available to play, with Dundee supplying Bobby Geddes, Eric Sinclair, Ian Fleming and Ian McDonald.
Gordon Strachan, Willie Miller and Mark McGhee came down from Aberdeen, with Stuart McLaren (Hearts) and Hibs duo Ally McLeod and Ralph Callachan completing the squad.
There were just 12 players listed in the progamme for West. These were Allan Rough, Alex O’Hara (Partick Thistle), Tom McAdam (Celtic), Neil Orr, Andy Ritchie (Morton), Pat McCluskey, Sandy Clark, Tommy Walker (Airdie), Ally Dawson (Rangers) and the St Mirren trio of Jimmy Bone, Jackie Copland and Billy Thomson.
Dougie Yeats was referee and Bill Miller and Ally Douglas ran the line.
Finally, as most of you know, I’m not adverse to a quiz question or two.
So test your knowledge with . . . Who were the managers of these afore-mentioned 11 clubs at the time of Doug’s testimonial (4/10/81)? Scroll down for answers below.
Doug Wilkie at the time of his accident with wife Maureen.
Answers . . .
BobbyWatson (Airdrie), Jim McLean (Dundee United), Donald Mackay (Dundee), Alex Ferguson (Aberdeen), Bertie Auld (Hibs), Tony Ford (Hearts), Rikki McFarlane (St Mirren), John Greig (Rangers), Benny Rooney (Morton), Billy McNeill (Celtic), Peter Cormack (Partick Thistle).
Seeing Colin Stein mentioned in a recent BwB article prompted a reader to ask about the striker’s time with the Scotland international squad.
The unnamed reader asked: “How many games in a row did Colin Stein score for Scotland?
“Also, can you confirm he scored hat-tricks in his first few games with Rangers?”
Rangers centre Stein netted in six successive games for Scotland.
He got on the goal trail with a double in an away 5-2 win over Cyprus in Nicosia in December 1968.
Stein then missed the next game — a 1-1 draw with West Germany at Hampden — but proceeded to score in Scotland’s next five internationals.
He hit one in a 5-3 away win over Wales in Wrexham, then hit the Scots only counter in a 1-1 draw with Northern Ireland at Hampden.
Stein then netted the only counter in a 4-1 defeat against England at Wembley, before firing four in an 8-0 thrashing of Cyprus at Hampden. His final strike in the six-game sequence was against the Republic of Ireland in Dublin, which finished 1-1.
He made a startling debut for the Ibrox side with a hat-trick against Arbroath at Gayfield on November 2, 1968.
Seven days later, he helped Rangers turn over his former club Hibs with a 6-1 scoreline, again helping himself to a treble.
* “How many of the Celtic team which won the European Cup in 1967 played for Scotland against Brazil in 1966?” was the query posed by Muirhead reader George Thomson.
Only Steve Chalmers, who scored, and John Clark played in that 1-1 draw with Brazil as they warmed up for the 1966 World Cup Finals in England.
The game took place on June 25, 1966, in front of 74,933.
Andy Penman was the theme as Jim Ritchie, of Douglas, Dundee, got in touch.
“None of my friends and family believe me but I maintain Andy Penman made his debut for Dundee FC as a 15-year-old,” he stated.
“However, I know I have read that before.
“I also remember him scoring five goals in a game at Dens.
“My brother-in-law Jimmy Wilson also thinks that players in the early 1960s had to go through juniors before they signed for professional clubs.
“That way, he says, they would be well over 15-16 years.
“Can BwB give the facts on this and also tell me if Penman went into management after he stopped playing?”
Well, first of all, Jim is correct as Andy Penman did play his first game for Dundee as a 15-year-old.
He played against Hearts at Tynecastle on February 7, 1959, just 13 days before his 16th birthday.
But Jimmy may also have a point.
Making your debut as a 15/16-year-old in those days was quite rare.
Also, if memory serves me well, players at that time also signed for a junior club when they were joining a senior side.
This was basically a cosmetic exercise and allowed players to be reinstated freely to the junior grade if they did not progress at professional level.
However, as I say, I’m not 100% sure on this rule. Perhaps a junior old-timer may be able to expand on this?
Back to Penman and he, of course, went on to be part of the Dundee side which won the league in 1962 and made the semi-final of the European Cup the following season.
The game in which he scored five goals was actually a friendly — an 8-2 win at Dens over Swedish side Elfsborg Boras on November 22, 1961.
He played over 200 times for Dundee before being transferred to Rangers in 1967, where he turned out over 100 times for the Ibrox side.
From there, it was on to Arbroath in 1972 and he played just under 80 games for the Red Lichties.
He finished his career in the Highland League with Inverness Caledonian.
I have no details of Penman being in any managerial or coaching role after he hung up his boots. He gained one full cap for Scotland against Hungary in 1966, and also five Scottish League caps.
Such is the esteem he was held in at Dens Park that there is a lounge named after him.
